In order to save it, the old Sauna at Podunk had to be taken down. The squirrels had taken over and filled the dressing room with a cache of nuts. The building was slowly sinking into the earth and the safety of the chimney, a heavy cast cement affair supported in the ceiling by a rusty homemade contraption, was questionable. The gaping mouth of stove door was rusted open in a permanent state of whoa. If this sauna was ever to make löyly again, work would have to be done. So, a month ago, after careful consideration and much debate, Scarlet and I joined members of the Heila family for a day of deconstruction.
As you may recall from earlier posts, (Sauna Time, Sauna Ritual,Homecoming, Back to Podunk) this is the 90 year-old sauna where many of us locals were initiated in the joys of sauna during the heyday of the 70’s when the Podunk Ski Center was a mecca for Nordic Skiing and all things Finnish. Its simple rustic character, which addressed the basic functionality of the sauna with what I call Finnish pragmatism, is the inspiration behind much of my sauna building. The demolition would give me the chance to dissect it and uncover some the secrets of its original design.
We always thought it was the perfect sauna: hot but airy, it made good löyly, and was roomy enough for an intimate crowd of 8.
What I did not know was how the materials related to its function: how well it heat up, how it held a good Löyly and never felt stuffy, and why it never burned down. Aesthetics aside, these are essential components to a good functioning sauna. We often debated whether it had any insulation at all, so I was especially curious about that.
It was a drizzly morning with a chill to the air; ironically, a perfect day for sauna. Our plan was to document the existing structure and take it down methodically, saving what we could and carting the rest away. Eventually the structure will be rebuilt, as close to the existing as possible, on the same site. We proceeded quickly, each of us attacking an area. Beloved details like the doors and little shelves in the dressing room were labeled, wrapped and carefully stored. The barn board siding was carefully removed board by board, and the whole front facade was Sawzalled off and preserved. As the layers were peeled back, we discovered not only that there had been several incarnations to the structure but we uncovered the answers to some of the questions I had been pondering. There were several surprises.
As the walls were removed from the outside in, we uncovered many layers and each wall was different. On the east wall, under the vertical reclaimed barn boards (installed in the 1970’s?) was a layer of Inselbric, the ubiquitous and horribly ugly asphalt siding that was used starting in the 1930’s. It was easy to use and durable and is still found on many “economy” (or as my Dad would call it: “Early American Poverty”) style homes dating between 1930 and 1960, until aluminum siding became popular. This was over a layer of horizontal 1×6 pine boards, loosely spaced, which went around most of the building. Under this was the big surprise: flattened cardboard boxes, several layers deep, between rough sawn vertical framing members about two feet on center.
The cardboard was in good shape and the labels were easily read: cereal case boxes from Wheaties, Corn Flakes and others. This was the insulation we all wondered about!
A web search of the logo style led to verification of the 1935 date of construction. Interspersed with the cardboard were vertical boards with no apparent purpose. Was this to add thermal mass to the walls? The interior surface was initially all Beaverboard, an early fiber board, which was covered with a thin veneer of plaster (real plaster, not joint compound) which was painted. This was akin to the plaster and tile block sauna of Van Buskirk Gulf I wrote about in a previous blog. This would have provided a vapor resistant barrier that would have held the Löyly steam for the right amount of time. Later, in the 1970’s, this was covered with 1×6 tongue and groove knotty pine. With our current obsession over cedar (or other wood) interior walls wonder if a more authentic sauna might be simply plaster with wooden benches and back rests? The plaster and paint layers (probably lead) were vapor semi-impermeable and thus capable of holding some of the moisture. Surely all the outer layers in the walls were breathable, that is, allowing vapor to easily escape and not collect as condensation, which is a very important consideration in any kind of construction. But I did notice one corner post had signs of severe rot. Did the plaster layer crack here and allow moisture to saturate the wood, setting the stage for a colony of carpenter ants to move in?
I also noticed that, other than the entire building sinking into the earth, the walls were structurally sound. So much so that when Tom hooked up the tractor to pull the north wall off, the whole remaining building (already missing its east and south wall) simple hopped along the foundation slab behind the tractor, taking the chimney with it and sending me into a fit of laughter. All those random layers of heavy boards were keeping things together. It’s not a recommended practice, but sometimes just heaping layers of wood into a structure creates enough redundancy to make it solid. I prefer the more efficient approach of building more with less.
The ceiling was like the walls, with plastered Beaverboard covered by pine. The tiny attic space was filled with a layer of cellulose interspersed with rodent droppings, walnuts, empty boxes of rat poison and a few old bottles, which probably once contained hooch. One was verified as being from 1938 by its unique design. Probably teenagers hiding their stash after a sauna; but, quite possibly, offerings to the sauna Gods to protect it from burning down.
As for fire safety, it was a miracle that the sauna never did burn down. There was a lot of charred wood throughout the attic, especially around the iron chimney supports.
Again, there were a lot of heavy boards, which seemed to have no structural significance, perhaps only adding thermal mass or insulation. The roof rafters were so heavy and the roof so strong that after it was lying on the ground like a low pup-tent, Tom had to drive the tractor over it to break it apart. The metal standing seam roof, with its many coats of black tar, was in surprisingly good shape, but leakage was occurring where the heavy, cast refractory cement chimney penetrated it. The stove below, welded by me in the 1990’s, was so rusted it was deemed to be scrap.
The cement floor had sloped to a drain but was cracked and broken. The original cement pour seemed hodgepodge and lacked any re-bar. Woodchucks had tunneled voids underneath it. The drain allowed for bathing— something the early Finnish farmers needed as the house probably lacked plumbing; bathing, to me, is an essential part of the sauna experience; that function of the sauna informs my designs. The floor will be replaced with an edge- thickened slab as the foundation; with a solid gravel base over undisturbed earth and with steel reinforcement.
The one component that perhaps was a factor in why the sauna felt so good was all the brick work around the stove, which was fired through the dressing room wall—a traditional design I frequently use. This added about a thousand pounds of thermal mass around the stove. Thermal mass holds the heat and radiates it back into the room but also means it will take longer to heat up. I typically use a lightweight fire wall so the sauna will heat quickly and to lessen the load on the building structure, but perhaps I should re-think that and revert to the solid masonry I started building with in the ‘90s. Ironically, the brick work at Podunk was added in the 70’s. The old Finns around here commonly relied on asbestos board for fire protection.
By the end of the day, we had a pile of barn boards and other parts stacked and labeled in the old ski lodge, and a dumpster overflowed with the rest. Although most of the sauna was discarded, the lessons learned will live on in the saunas I continue to build. Next year, we will rebuild Podunk with modern efficiency but in the same basic footprint as the original. Hopefully the entire facade will be replaced and the lilac tree where the sauna bell hung replanted. We’ll probably skip the lead paint and asbestos board and use a modern, UL listed chimney support in lieu of the home-made rig that was there. Fire safety will be based on science, not luck. Cedar over foil (with an air gap!) will line the walls and the functionality will be the same, and hopefully, better.
Family and friends will gather there to sweat and bathe and run naked to the creek for generations to come.
If you look “Podunk” up in the dictionary, it will tell you that it is a hypothetical or insignificant town. The folks who live there think otherwise. Podunk is actually a place name on the map a short ski south of Trumansburg, New York, where I grew up. Despite having only a smattering of residents, they will all tell you that is very real and very significant.
In the 1960’s Ozzie Heila settled there with this family on an old farmstead established by an even older Finn who first built his sauna (above) before the house in the 1930’s. It is also where I learned of all the important things in life. In the 1970’s I spent countless winter hours there at the ski center that Ozzie established, becoming a become a damn good Nordic skier and developing a life-long passion for the sport.
In the summers I explored the creek with his son, my good friend Daniel, and learned the value of immersing one’s self in nature. Daniel’s mother, Ethel, was my art teacher in middle school; she helped me become the artist I am today and we still have wonderful conversations about color theory and art composition. And at the heart of the complex of dated farm buildings was the sauna; there I learned to channel my need to experience extremes into something healthy and life affirming. We loved going from the hot to the cold.
Jumping in the creek in the dead of winter after a searing round in the sauna, we felt more alive than ever. That feeling has never died; each cold plunge I take during sauna takes me back to that creek.
Today, Daniel and his family were back in the area and we went to Podunk to visit the old homestead once again. This time we took our Finnish Blue mobile sauna and parked it next to the ramshackle old sauna, which is now defunct and awaiting a rebirth. Many things have changed but some things are the same. The trees have grown huge or even died, the old purple Lilac, with the rusty sauna bell hanging from its branches, is gone and the brush has been cleared away from the old sauna, revealing the sagging bones of the century-old structure. But the building itself is as recognizable as the last day I took a sauna there about 25 years ago. The inside is a sadder story—it turns out that squirrels like the sauna too and they have made it theirs. As if in a expression of horror at the mess, the Lämpimämpi stove I welded up for Ozzie in the 90’s sits with it’s mouth rusted wide open.
The path through the field to the creek is the same but with a detour to the left towards a new dipping hole: a bathtub in the midst of the rushing current with a strategically placed rock to help keep your butt moored. The run down to the creek had the same awkwardness … trying to run all out before you cooled off but trying to maintain stable footing the same. And the sensation! The whoops and hollers of 12-year-old boys came out of us as we braved the icy April stream.
Real or not, Podunk is the same as it will always be. What are memories but unreal fragments in our minds, ready to be stirred up by whirling waters of a cold stream, or by the hot steam of a sauna? The old next to the new will always appear old, until we make it new again and live our lives in the now, to the fullest, with no regrets, and dreams, not of memories, but of tomorrows.
New sauna and parked it next to the old sauna near the creek.
Learn how to build saunas and gain expert knowledge from master builder Rob Licht in an intensive 4-day class experience
Dates: SPRING class! May 1-4, 2025
This is a comprehensive sauna building class and workshop with demonstrations, lectures and some hands-on experience. We will cover many aspects of building saunas including:
Design and layout of saunas: Freestanding & Electric Saunas
Selection of the proper wood and other materials
Insulation principles
Interior wood paneling
The kiuas or sauna stove (emphasis on wood burning)
Safe clearances and chimney installation
Floor and stove wall masonry construction.
Mobile saunas
Benches, doors, windows and other sauna details
Using the sauna: usage, custom and etiquette
sauna culture, business, construction challenges and more… !
Total Class Fee: $900 individual $1700 couple/family rate
A $100 non-refundable deposit is due at registration and applied to the class fee.
Location: At the Shop of Rob Licht Custom Saunas 8 Verizon Lane, Unit 1, Lansing, NY 14882
Class size will be limited to 12. There will be a waitlist. Please email us at contact@roblichtcustomsaunas.com to get on the early registration list and we will let you know the dates asap.
Class Schedule: Thursday: 10AM to 5PM, lunch provided Friday: 9AM to 5PM, lunch provided Saturday: 9AM to 5PM, lunch provided Sunday: 9AM to 1PM, lite brunch provided
Throughout the intensive days we will have break-out work sessions, time to answer questions, and coffee breaks. There will be opportunities for socializing after class and the option to take sauna at the shop and by the lake.One evening, we will sauna and picnic at a local park on Cayuga Lake. Significant others are welcome to join us for this event.
Recommended prerequisite: We’re not covering basic carpentry (exterior framing), and basic metal working. If you lack these skills it is advised that you take a hands-on carpentry class.
About the Teacher: Rob Licht has been taking sauna for 50 years and has built and designed hundreds of custom saunas. Rob readily dispenses his knowledge to students and hopes to share his enthusiasm and expert knowledge of sauna with you.
Rob Licht grew up near Ithaca, N.Y., inspired by the bucolic landscape of the Finger Lakes region. He fell in love with sauna and Finnish culture as a teenager at a local cross-country ski center run by a Finnish family. He has a Master of Fine Arts Degree from Cornell University and has been a practicing artist and teacher for over 30 years. He taught art at Ithaca College for 12 years and has also taught adult education classes in welding, art, and design. He began combining his love of sauna, his practice as an artist, and his skills acquired from working in the building trades into a sauna building business in 1995. Today sauna building is his primary focus and he is one of the leading east coast sauna builders and sauna building educator offering a plethora of information to his clients, and now students, from around the world.
Terms & Info: A $100 non refundable deposit is due at registration payable paypal/venmo and applied to total class fee. Your balance is due (via mailed check) at least 45 days before class in order to attend. We realize that check writing may be a thing of the past, so are other options via paypal but ask that you cover the 3% paypal fee. We will also accept cash for the balance when you arrive, just let us know if you are planning on that so we can plan for your attendance. In the event the class is under enrolled (6 or less), you will be informed and your deposit of $100 will be refunded. In the case the class is over enrolled (12+) we will put you on a waitlist and we will let you know asap if you can attend. Because of the overwhelming popularity of the class, there is a waitlist, so if you do need to cancel please keep that in mind so we have time to fulfill your spot. Class size will be limited to 12. Class attendees will have the opportunity to buy our sauna building plans at 50% off.
About the Shop: 3000 sq ft with 16 ft ceilings and two large overhead doors and outdoor spaces to ensure good air quality.
Lunch is included: Lunches will be delivered to the shop. We will accommodate basic dietary restrictions with options. Coffee, Tea and snacks will also be available throughout the days of the class.
Sauna etiquette: We allow about 4 people at a time in the sauna. Bathing suits are required; please bring 2 towels (free from perfumed detergents) to sit on in the sauna. Towels will also be provided everyday. Everyone will get a chance to sauna most days after class.
WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING…
“This was the best weekend. I learned so much and left feeling full of inspiration and conviction. We can do this y’all- the revolution is happening! I am so grateful to you, Rob and Scarlet, for working so hard to put together such a clear and digestible roadmap for all of us. And I am so grateful for having four days with the loveliest people to talk sauna. What a dream.” —Erin, NC
“What an amazing weekend of sauna immersion. It was something special to be in an intimate group of like-minded folk focused on something that brings us such joy. Rob and Scarlet so well prepared and so packed with knowledge and hands-on experience! I was so impressed with the smooth and thoughtful delivery of information. Possibly the biggest take away I got was that there are many right and not so right ways to do things, in the end sauna building is an art as much as it is a science, which is why my sauna is so authentic in the experience.” —Mark, MA
Rob and Scarlet are the real deal! I’m a professional carpenter and builder. I bought and adapted Rob’s mobile sauna plans, and I also did a consult with him. Two years later, and I’ve just had the pleasure of spending 4 days in the shop with Rob, Scarlet, and about a dozen other students, drinking from the firehose of knowledge and experience. They make a great team, both as builders and educators, and they’re just great people to be around. I couldn’t be more pleased and impressed with the experience, and I’m eager to get back to building saunas back on the west coast with my business, Sauna Väki. —Josiah, OR
Traveling with one of our mobile saunas to the lake and delivering to new owners.
We have been building mobile saunas for the past 10 years! and because of their growing popularity and versatility, they now make up most of our business. Each unit is still handcrafted with many layers of details. The owners each get a unique product tailored to their specifications. It’s also an easy way to avoid zoning and permitting restrictions while avoiding the hassles of a site-built project. Investing in your dream sauna makes more sense if you know you can take it with you!
We hear from our customers all the time that their friends, family, and neighbors are as excited as they are to have a sauna!
mobile sauna, wood-fired sauna on a trailer
For many people, owning a sauna feels like a bare necessity during the winter months!
This recent sauna build is just steps from the owner’s historic New England homestead. Our saunas are designed to blend in with the home and environment. The classic details of this historic house are elegant rustic with dramatic rock outcroppings and a fire pit, making for a perfect gathering spot.Our wood-fired mobile saunas travel well and can be parked in beautiful placesScarlet by the lake ready for a cold plunge
Having a sauna at home is a life upgrade that is low-maintenance.
Our 5×8 ft Mobile Sauna parked in town with 100 gallon cold plunge tank.Interior of our larger mobile sauna. Our saunas can get as hot as you like with a large pile of rocks. We aim for 100°C / 212°F We build many mobile saunas in our shop in Ithaca, NY. Working in our 3000 square foot shop is more efficient than building on-site.Two sizes of mobile Saunas on display at our shop in Ithaca, NY
We offer building plans for DIY sauna builders or your local builder for one-time usage only. Thanks to our valued sauna plan customers, and the growing popularity of DIY sauna building, we have taken the opportunity to launch our new & improved mobile sauna building plans! Our sauna plans are 50+ pages and include detailed notes, drawings, photos, and material lists for a wood-fired 5’x8’/6.5’x10′. If you are thinking about purchasing our plans or building a sauna, we offer you an opportunity to build your own sauna using construction plans. Rob Licht has developed the best practices of sauna building with 30+ years of experience.
When we think of Sauna, we generally think of a wood-lined room heated by an electric or wood-fired kiuas (even though my last post was on the discovery of an old smooth plastered sauna.) The wood is integral to the experience—for the aesthetics of its look, its pleasant smell, and ability to take the humidity and temperature extremes. But all wood is not alike, and the question of what kind of wood to use always arises. The answer to that question, like everything else these days, is changing.
Typically in the US, especially in the generic gym and hotel saunas, and home kit saunas, Western Red Cedar is used. As its name implies, it is from the western US and Canada. All lumber is graded and each board is stamped as it runs through the mill. The grade indicates species, appearance, mill, and strength of the wood. The letters A-D are modified by Select, Clear and STK (select tight knots). For cedar saunas, it will be either a clear select grade or STK, the latter being almost half the price of the former. Cedar is also produced mainly for exterior siding applications and comes with a textured surface on one side that, unlike the sawing pattern of rough sawn lumber, is applied in the mill after sawing. This rough surface is considered the “good” side to which the grade applies. A big frustration with cedar is that I want the smooth side facing out and, since the board is graded to the other side, there is no guarantee that the smooth side has the appearance that the grade indicates.
Western Red Cedar, graded clear select with many variations of color
Color in cedar varies a lot: one side can be red and the other have annoying stripes of white wood. Clear select grade A boards will be better, but they come at a premium price, currently about $12-15 a board foot (12’x1 ft x1” thick, nominal dimensions). For years I have typically used Western Red STK for the walls and maybe Clear Select grade on the benches. This wood comes from either Idaho or British Columbia (BC). STK is likely from managed (regenerated) forest plantations and Clear Select is from larger old growth trees in BC. There is a guilt factor here I consider, so I veer towards STK whenever possible. (I also use Northern White Cedar frequently in freestanding saunas and our mobile saunas but that is the topic of another post.)
Cedar has been touted for its stability in the heat—which is true, and because of its low density, it doesn’t get hot to the touch—an important feature in a hot room with bare flesh touching the walls and benches.
Wood is a global commodity affected by the stock markets, inflation, building trends, shipping woes, fire seasons and the whims of political leaders who set tariffs as a way to taunt each other. You can make a career (and people do) out of studying the ebb and flow of lumber supply and prices. Add to this mix the pandemic and you have a roller coaster of unpredictability. The information I gleaned from building ten or twenty years ago I can no longer rely on. Suppliers have come and gone, quality has gone down and prices go mostly up.
The Pandemic created a real change in the labor force as well. There was never a shortage of raw lumber-logs but as workers and truck drivers got sick or just quit, mills shut down and logs piled up. The calculus used to predict building trends was skewed by everyone staying home and building decks with their pandemic relief money and we all saw prices soar while availability of lumber, especially cedar, shrank. In the meantime, the cedar I could get has been showing up with major defects, some from the mill, some from very poor handing: fork lift stabs are so common I have to over-order for very job. I assume this is the result of experienced older workers leaving the work force and being replaced by a cohort too inexperience to understand that the 6-board bundle they just mangled cost me more than what they make in two days. Some days I feel like all I make is very expensive kindling.
Cedar, graded side up (rough) with shipping damage
The truth is, in Finland, the source of my sauna inspiration, they don’t even have Western Red Cedar. They have soft wood species similar to what we have—spruce, pine, fir (SPF) but, in general, the quality and nature of wood varies by region. Wood from northern climates grows slower and has a denser grain.
As in Scandinavia, trees in uniformly dense forests have straighter grain as the trees race to reach up for the sun. Compare a “lone wolf” white oak, with its sprawling branches, to a deep forest oak.
Norway Spruce is the wood choice for many Finns, as are Alder and Aspen, which are soft hardwoods. The latter grow bigger there than our typical Aspen and Alder which rarely found at local mills. Cedar has been touted for its stability in the heat—because of its low density, it doesn’t get hot to the touch. But now Scandinavians have started using a thermal process of using heat and steam to modify wood and make it more stable and rot resistant (or so the web pages claim). I suspect there is also a Scandinavian work ethic at play: working in the trades there does not carry the same stigma of being a high school dropout, as it does here, and attention to detail and quality are paramount. Call it the IKEA effect.
Thermory and Lunawood are two brands available now in the US. The shipping crisis (highlighted by a boat getting stuck sidewise in the Suez Canal) has calmed down so now the economy of having quality wood freighted in containers from the Baltic’s to you (via a US distributor) probably makes more sense than wasting your time perusing the aisles of a big box store (or several) to glean out a few good cedar boards from a pile of fork lift-stabbed firewood. I also measure the time I spend trying to hide defects as I install the wood. While I still want to get all of my materials as locally sourced as possible, we are now in a global economy and looking abroad is certainly starting to make more sense to me. —Rob
Beautiful samples of thermally modified wood using heat and steam
The town of Newfield, just south of where I live, is known for its rolling hills, deep gullies and rugged forest. When I used to live there I’d ramble about the woods and back roads that thread their way through sparsely populated forest. Just south of there is Spencer, known for its many Finns who settled there in the early 1900’s. Mostly these Finns came east from Michigan in search of better farmland and a life that did not include mining. You can still make out saunas behind the old farms: small wooden outbuildings with a tell-tale-chimney. Some are still in use; others are slowly falling apart, as rural structures tend to do.
At the bottom of Van Buskirk Gulf, on a stretch of seasonal road, next to the creek, is a curious arrangement of structures. One is a beautiful old stone bridge dating to 1818— the oldest in the county— that was restored several years ago. Overlooking this is an abandoned stone house; the windows shuttered with plywood and the insides littered with graffiti. Although it echoes the stonework of the bridge, county records show it was built in 1865.
Across from the house and alongside the creek sits the main object of my curiosity— an old steam sauna or banya.
Unlike the old wooden saunas, this building is built from tile block and concrete with a beautifully plastered interior. The plaster, which is over metal lathe, has a smooth eggshell finish that is only typically found in high end homes that predate the use of drywall or plaster board. The metal lathe came after the use of wood lathe. My Guess is the 1930’s-40’s. The layout has an entryway where one would undress and relax. A room to the side has a small door in its far end leading to a fire chamber below the sauna room. This is where the firewood must have been stored and the fire tended to. Beyond the dressing room, up three steps, was the bathing room. It is all plastered, including the bench, with an arched ceiling and soft curves. In the center along the interior wall, above the fire chamber, is the heater that features a large rock chamber.
The fire would pass over these rocks until they were ready to use, then, once the fire died down, the iron lid was lifted and water would be thrown on the rocks to produce steam.
This is the same as modern heat storage heaters. A side door from the dressing leads directly to the creek. Remnants of a heat exchanger tell me that hot water was also available to bathe with.
Up the creek is the remains of a large dam structure. Was this a work camp of some sort? Were Finns (or Russians) employed nearby? Was it a mill site? Perhaps it was built during the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) era of the 1930’s when many trails were built in nearby parks. I can imagine a group of workers enjoying the steam bath after a hard day’s work and plunging into the creek. I can also imagine fixing it up and returning it to use. If anyone has any answers, please share them!
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Reference: Melissa Ladenheim, The Sauna in Central New York, Dewitt Historical Society of Tompkins County. Ithaca, NY 1986.
